Unknown: 0:02

Hi, welcome to the big commerce podcast. Welcome everyone, to the third episode of The Big commerce podcast today with me as always, Luigi. Hello, I wanted to first thank all of you that have downloaded our second and first episode, we had a lot of feedback. And a lot of suggestions for the topic to cover. The main topic for today are going to be driving traffic marketing, lifetime value, growing sales. As a project manager, I'm always all about planning, how do we choose the right type of marketing we want to employ for a specific business.

Luigi Moccia: 0:57

In order to market effectively, we need to understand the type of client that we're marketing to. So lifetime value, LTV CLV, cltv, all acronyms for lifetime value. It's basically the profit a customer gives you over the entire relationship. So for example, if you always in the mornings on your commute, when we do get to go to the office, we always go to the same coffee shop to buy a coffee and pastry, the lifetime value there is high because we are going back day in day out week in week out. So it's really important to understand what level of lifetime value, the customer is giving a particular merchant because it gives you an idea of where to invest your marketing dollars. And whether it's on acquiring customers or retaining customers. So the example that I often use, when I'm talking to merchants is Mike and Steve. Mike has a mirror shop and Steve has a supplement shop. So Mike's mirror shop has customers that go in there for one off purchases, they need a mirror for their hallway for their bedroom, for a bathroom, they go in, they buy a mirror, and then they go, if they want to buy another mirror, chances are they will always look around to see what other merchants especially because it's you know, very kind of design and style based. So Mike can't take for granted that because somebody bought a mirror today, they'll be back next week or next month and buy another mirror they may do but it's not after they've researched the market. Steve however, has got a supplement shop. So a lot of his customers, you know, often use supplements when they go to the gym and keep fit. So they're constantly buying to replenish their their stock. And so Steve has regular repeat orders. He's got customers that maybe have taken out subscriptions. And so his customers have got high lifetime value, whereas Mike's have Mike's customers have a low lifetime value. And so that that gives us an idea of where Mike and Steve need to spend their money, Mike needs to focus on client acquisition. And Steve needs to focus on client retention because it's cheaper and easier to market to an existing customer and to retain a customer than it is to find the new one. So that then lays down the foundations about the type of marketing that a merchant has to undertake in order to grow their business.

Unknown: 3:15

So we have low lifetime value, one shot purchase, I lifetime value, repetitive purchase a new adaptive marketing strategy based on this

Luigi Moccia: 3:27

lifetime value is is a question that every merchant must be able to answer immediately no luminara no thinking about it.

Unknown: 3:35

So let's talk about some marketing strategies for a customer acquisition.

Luigi Moccia: 3:40

I mean, if you've got low lifetime value, it's all about acquiring customers. So pay per click, product listing ads, possibly even SEO. And whereas if you've got high lifetime value, your marketing shifts towards retention, so email marketing, social media, Net Promoter scores NPS that I'm a massive fan of, and we'll talk about later. So everyone needs their first customer. So every merchant will need to focus on customer acquisition at some point, whether it's that they're starting out, or they just need to, you know, find new customers to grow their business. So the first place to start where I would start anyway would be search marketing, that has two types of two main types of search, marketing, paid search and organic search. So I'll start with paid search because it's the probably the most immediate, if that's okay with you. And so paid search Pay Per Click Google AdWords, the backbone of Google's revenue. And this is where advertisers pay to be listed on a Google search results page or a Bing search results page and other display networks as well. So there are there are advantages and disadvantages, pros and cons to pay per click, but I think certainly if you're starting out it should be on on your radar. product listing ads. This is where if you go into a search engine and type in a particular product merchants appear With their product cards, and, you know, have their product and have their price, it's fantastic because it means that you can get in front of eyeballs. immediately if you set up a, you know campaign. Now, within two hours, you could be getting visits from your website. And so it's a short time to market you can control the hours, and the days and the regions where you want your adverts to appear. So if you are a merchant who's just starting out and say, Look, you know, I've got a, I'm not shipping my products by courier, but I'll be doing it, you know, myself or there'll be clicking collect, there may be only one to advertise in a local area, not nationally. The problem is, however, there's two main ones. The first one is that it often promotes competition on price only because it's very difficult to get your unique selling proposition across. In a product listing ads. If you're doing Google AdWords, where you've got an opportunity to push some text advertising, then you you get that opportunity. But if you're doing the product listing as the pls is very difficult, because it's predominately the price, that's the key driver there. And you've got other factors like reviews as well, but price is the main one. And also the cost per click model can eat into your margin. Now, if your product hasn't got margin to market, you've got the wrong product. And I might have mentioned this in the previous episode. So you do need to have margin for for marketing in there. But it can quite quickly, you know, snowball if you don't optimise your listing where you're getting the visits, you're spending money to acquire those customers, but actually, they're not converting so it's really important that you monitor your your paid advertising and continually strive to optimise. But as I said, it's really good to kind of get eyeballs straightaway drive some traffic straightaway. Whereas you know, you've got something like search engine optimization, which can take weeks, if not months to gain some traction,

Unknown: 6:50

I will just start to define a fixed budget for PPC and manage it in a consistent way choosing the right platform, either it is Facebook or LinkedIn, Google or Instagram, according Of course to your market, and choose the right campaign that can reach the cut the exact target audience, you can even differentiate on a search engine. Bing, for example, is way cheaper than Google. But if you just force a smaller audience,

Luigi Moccia: 7:20

it is I mean, if you look at kind of our advertising, we don't spend any money on paid advertising on Facebook than we do Google ads. But our social media platform of choice is LinkedIn. We sell websites and digital marketing services. So really, our audience is predominantly around LinkedIn. If I was selling t shirts, I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily advertise on some of that LinkedIn. So it's really important that you write, you find the right platform to to advertise on. It's about demographics. At the end of the day, you don't know where your customers, eyeballs are, you know, your customers on Instagram. Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on Google? Are they on? You know, other other platforms? So that's a really important point to have in general. Yeah.

Unknown: 8:04

Anytime we talk about PPC, it is obviously important to talk about SEO.

Luigi Moccia: 8:11

So every website is affected by SEO, whether they're optimised or not, because they will rank in a search engine unless they specifically been told not to, for example, through a robots txt file. So we've got one of our merchants. It's a b2b merchant. It's an intercompany platform. They don't want external customers so that you won't find them in Google. But for the majority of customers, they want to be ranked in Google and they want to be ranked high in Google and Bing and Yahoo. I mean, I often refer Google only because it has a majority of searches. So that's why I think give us an agreement with that. And SEO is something that I'm really passionate about on top of e commerce and because it's where I started from, so I did Seo 1012 years ago. And I I absolutely enjoyed immensely, optimising websites and actually getting the satisfaction of seeing them, you know, kind of increase in rankings, but it is a very complex and grey area, right? So because Google doesn't have a checklist of you know, things that you must do in order to rank highly, and what you can do to rank higher than somebody else, it gives guidelines. And you know, there's a there's a holy, you know, SEO industry that discusses this, but there is no defined guide that will guarantee kind of placement. So very much it's about doing your research and making sure that you do the right things, right. And don't even bother looking about things that are so great. So, SEO should be included in everyone's strategy, only because it's the most cost effective search marketing strategy. Seo agencies charge upwards of about 100 pounds an hour. So if you've got anybody charging you less, start asking some questions. Anyone that guarantees you rankings, steer clear of and don't go for package solutions, because Every website is different. Every website requirement is different. And therefore every marketing strategy is different. The package solutions, they will maybe get you to certain level. But actually, if you need to start competing heavily, that's when your marketing strategy has to be unique. So as I said, the results aren't guaranteed. Anybody that does kind of guarantee them is lying through their teeth, and shouldn't be trusted. But the problem that we're competitive The reason why I kind of said Pay Per Click really should be the first port of call is because SEO can take weeks, if not months, to pull through depending on how competitive the the competitive landscape is. So the other thing you need to consider is the type of keywords you're optimising for, it's important that you optimise for the right keywords as well. So do your research. Don't just assume that because you're selling t shirts, you should be optimised for the word t shirts. Maybe somebody is looking for some t shirts to be able to print on themselves. Maybe somebody is looking for high quality cotton t shirts. So it's really important that you do your research about which keywords people are searching for. And the ones that you want to be found for there plenty of tools available on the internet that give you this the search query counts the competitiveness, and so you start to build up an idea is it worth searching for a high competitive low traffic keyword? Or is it better to optimise for a you know, medium competition, medium traffic keyword, and especially long tail ones are really good to optimise for. So rather than just searching for, or rather optimising for the word t shirt, maybe you can start to use it for longtail keywords such as, you know, high quality cotton t shirts, or you know, those kind of things will probably drive you more qualified traffic,

Unknown: 11:41

when it comes to

Luigi Moccia: 11:42

actually optimising no keywords is just one element of that. There's on page and off page optimization that you need to undertake. Now, a lot of startups won't have the budget to spend on SEO, because I think to actually gain any traction unless you are in a really niche, you know, kind of low competition industry, you're going to be spending upwards of about 800 pounds a month, in my opinion, up to the thousands depending on the amount of work that's required to optimise your website. And I think for a lot of merchants, especially starting out, and especially in terms of COVID, that's out their budget. So some tips to kind of focus in terms of SEO is content, every page that you're optimising for should have a minimum of 200 words, it gives the websites an idea of what your page is about. Now, take that content. And we spoke about writing descriptive content in the previous episode as well. So make sure your content is keyword rich, don't keyword spam, but just make sure you got the right you know, level of keyword relevancy. And make sure your website's loading fast as well. So PageSpeed not only important for visitors, because when they go on there, they'll be waiting five seconds for a page to load. But also Google uses that as one of the ranking factors, websites that load faster, get kind of you know, in terms of score and get high score and the ones that loads slowly. readability and mobile friendly design, those are other elements to make sure that you rank well in websites. So make sure you're what you're especially now Google's go kind of mobile first in its approach. So make sure that your website is mobile friendly. And finally, schema markup. So oftentimes, if you go to Google and search for a particular product, you'll get some additional snippets in there with each result. So things like the review, rating, the price, the availability, and all those things are pulled from the website. So make sure that your website's optimised for schema markup as well. Again, plenty of resources to be able to do that yourself, then we move on to off page optimization, which is very good, it's really great, because there are elements here that are important. But sometimes the approach people take is where it starts to get a bit messy. So one of the factors that search engines use to determine whether a website is you know, kind of credible or not, or, you know, kind of if it should rank higher than another one is links. Now, the thinking behind this is, the better the website, the more other websites will want to link to it. So if you're writing good content in blogs, or products or whatever, then you know, people will want to link to that page. See, but by getting that organic kind of content out there, and then gaining the organic links, Google's and beings and other websites and search engines methodology is this website is is credible, and we should, you know, kind of push push it up the rankings. What some SEO consultants do, and this is where it gets really dangerous is through things like link building and link farming, where the links generated are artificial, and they are sometimes paid or they are kind of they're not done organically. There's been some form of you know, kind of leverage going on there. So it's really important that you steer clear of those. Now there's a that's a really grey area because there are agencies that say Do all this link building is but it has to be organic. So, you know, make sure you do your research there if people kind of say we're going to undertake a link building campaign by contacting all these websites and creating page of links, again, that's a no no, because if you get banned from Google blacklisted from the search engine, it's gonna be incredibly difficult to, to get listed on them again. Now, there are loads of resources out there, but there's four that I'm gonna tell you about now. So the first one is Search Engine Journal, Google Search Engine Journal, and you'll get the URL there, Search Engine Land, again, google it Moz, which started off and is still a search engine, kind of marketing software, Mo Zed moz.com. And then Google has its own webmaster blog as well, webmasters dot google blog.com, but you can google search all those, there's some really good I probably say the top four resources that I would use, especially for starting an SEO. But then if you want to kind of increase your, your knowledge around SEO,

Unknown: 15:57

coming back to lifetime value, an interesting marketing channel that falls in between the PPC and SEO is social media.

Luigi Moccia: 16:05

Social media is something that sits on the fence between client acquisition and client retention, because it can actually work for both approaches. So if you are looking for new customers, depending on you know, whether your target demographic is actually on that particular platform, you can advertise to, to basically appear in front of potential customers who hopefully will, will get to know your brand through social media. And by once they've kind of made that connection with your social media, it's important that you are able to commercialise that relationship. So make sure that your ecommerce platform if it's got that ability, and nowadays, it's pretty much a default functionality allows you to sell on social media sites. So whether it's Facebook, Instagram, or Pinterest, you what you can do is if you upload your catalogue to these platforms, when you're pushing out content, and a particular post maybe has a product, you can tag that product in there. So that if you've got people who wants to find out more about that product or purchase it, they don't need to go on to a browser, get onto your website, search for the product, and then you know, read about it and add it to the cart, they can simply tap on the photo, it'll come up with that with a tag, you know, tap on the link, and it takes you to the product information. So make sure that you're utilising that functionality there and tagging products in your post, it reduces the customer journey as well, the influencer marketing is something that's growing exponentially. And nowadays there are influences for all types of budgets. So they don't have to be ones that may be charged couple of hundred or a couple of thousand dollars a post, you can find ones that are lower kind of cost, maybe they what I'd certainly focus on as well is the quality rather than the quantity. So there's no point trying to work with influencers who have a very high following, but maybe a bit more generic is better to try and get somebody who has some authority in the sector that you're in, to operate as an influencer now that there are kind of platforms that can connect you with influencers. And so, but as I said, because there's kind of all types of budgets available, it should be some of them, you know, a lot of customers, certainly in terms of kind of client acquisition should should look at. And because social media is all about demographics, it's about choosing also the right platform. So don't just think of the main ones such as Instagram, or Facebook or Twitter. But if you're in sports and leisure, then a social media platform like Strava, and groups and Strava is going to be one that you should focus on. beauty and fashion, have got, you know, style Vol. So there really are other platforms, social media platforms that are industry specific. So whilst it's important to have a presence on the big ones, and also look at the more niche ones that said, don't stretch yourself too thinly, there's no point trying to kind of, you know, be on every single platform and struggle, you're better off doing fewer platforms, well, then just try to do too many. And Pauline, by no means are we a social media agency. You know, we're always learning as well, one of the resources that I I would strongly urge anyone that's looking at social media to look up, if you haven't heard of him already is Gary Vaynerchuk. He's a social media superhero. And he's put out enormous amounts of content. And he's got a couple of decks on his website, Gary vaynerchuk.com, where it talks to you about putting out content and the latest one was about pushing out 100 pieces of content a day. That's quite a big feat, but he tells you about the different types of content you can do how you can repurpose as well. So it is worth the investment that at the end of the day, you know, you could give an agency your social media marketing to look after, but really who knows the product and the industry better than yourselves or your team? You know, if people are asking questions on social media, What you don't want is to have somebody emailing you saying I've been asked this question, you know, I don't really know how to answer or can use to prove the answer. You want somebody to be able to respond immediately with the right information. And that's why you should try and bring it in house at the end of the day. It's an investment You know, it takes time to put together content, it takes time to nurture the social media presence. But at the end of the day, it's an investment. If you put in that one to two hours a day in your company, compared to somebody that puts in one or two minutes, you will reap high rewards, the ROI is gonna be much higher for you who invest in social media, than somebody that just sees it as a necessary evil and does the bare minimum. So social media, you know, and then once you've kind of got the client in your funnel, and you know, they're on your, that they've become a customer, that's when you can start kind of remarketing to them and you know, trying to get them to buy a few again and again. So that's why it works well on both sides, both client acquisition and client retention,

Unknown: 20:43

summing up what we said till now. So defining the demographic, choosing an exact platform for your audience, at Target, targeting it with consistent posts, trying to manage them by yourself and answering directly to your customers. These are the main bullet point bullet points. After this, it will be all about client retention, I guess I will use email marketing and customers themselves as promoters.

Luigi Moccia: 21:11

Again, one could argue say, well, you can email marketing for client acquisition, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a subscriber who has not yet bought from you, I wouldn't see why people would do that. So the main platform that a lot of small micro businesses use is MailChimp, MailChimp is great because it gets, you know, kind of sending out good email campaigns very quickly. There are other platforms like digital, and I think their space is more kind of in the larger SME, mid market enterprise. And then kind of in between sets this disruptor called klaviyo. Now, klaviyo are really good as a kind of entry level, but they are starting to really upped their game and allow you to go more granular in your email marketing campaign. So it really depends on what stage you are in your business. As I said, I I think MailChimp is a fantastic platform. And they are expanding their reach. But I think you know, their focus is is very much on SME, whilst it works for larger businesses there is that there are alternatives that I think are better suited. But there are a couple of rules that you need to follow for email marketing. So it's all about personalization, the phallus a buzzword that you can even talk about in e commerce. So you know, if you go on to your Amazon dot code at UK or.com page, and then I go mine will see completely different content because it's been personalised to the visitor. And it's the same with email marketing. So cover tips you can use for email marketing when you're sending out campaigns try try try to get the subscribers first name is signups. So I know that the default kind of functionalities just to kind of get the email address. But the problem is if you don't get their first name, you can't send out targeted email campaigns. And the good thing about putting first names in the email both in the subject line in the body is that it makes it personal to the person that's reading. So one of the tips that I kind of tell a lot of merchants to use is put the first name in the subject line with an emoji just so it stands out a bit. But you know, then you get emails that say, Luigi say 15% off this week, or in general say, you know, get free delivery when you spend over 50 pounds. And as soon as you kind of see your name, that makes it an email for you not a generic email that is sent to everybody. And the other good thing about email marketing is that if they bought off your website, they have an email address. There may be some occasions where it's been a, you know, a relative or a friend that has bought on behalf of somebody. But chances are that if somebody is born on your website, they have their own email address, which means that you know, you can market to them. But it is important that you can only market to somebody who has agreed to receive newsletters from you. So you know, just bear that in mind, and has the highest ROI of all marketing channels and is really, really measurable in terms of its success. And going back to the personalization, if you use the right platform for e commerce and use the right email services provided and connect them properly, you can start sending out personalised emails that have products that the email service platforms algorithm believes the recipient will be interested to see. So that means that you can send out one email campaign targeted to a particular segment, whether it's demographic or customer group or whatever. But actually the content then starts to become more personal to the person that's receiving it. So that's why it's quite good on the ROI level because you can actually say right centac campaign, it costs me you know, X amount of hours or X amount of money for using an agency, but actually brought me in, you know, 1000 5000 10,000 pounds worth of sales. And the analytics will tell you that it's quick to set up a campaign as well you kind of talk you know, less than half an hour, you can set them up and you can also do things like automation as well. So, if you are trying to onboard a customer, you can do a series of emails. You can also link up the e commerce platform to send out abandoned cart notifications or you know, kind of view your lesson products in the cart, click here to, you know, continue your journey, then you can send out promo offers if you want to. But as I said, it's fully measurable. So you can actually see how much it's costing you to run that email marketing campaign, and how much money it's brought in over the course of the campaign. Life. So which is normally a couple of days, I think if someone hasn't actioned an email, after three days, they're pretty much dead, which means you can set up a follow on say, if this person did click or didn't open, maybe depending on what kind of focusing on a goal, send them out a secondary email with whatever the content is, whether it's a 5% discount, or just a reminder. So email marketing, I'm a huge fan of just make sure it's personal, and it stands out and is relevant, because you don't want people unsubscribing.

Unknown: 25:55

Just hold that, to test it, test it and test again. Because sometimes it's really annoying when you get an email like Hello, dash, tag, name, dash or image missing, and so on. So it's really important to test them and to have consistent content in the email. And I will add, don't overwhelm your customer, a reminder is fine. But usually a better email will, it's better to have one will build an attractive email than three, and keep it short and effective.

Luigi Moccia: 26:28

Go back to that testing. Also make sure it works on various devices and various email clients as well. And so, you know, there are some free plans available, but it's genuinely worth spending the small amounts of money to get, you know, access to all the tools that can test the the email campaigns for spam, and also email clients.

Unknown: 26:49

So what about customers instead,

Luigi Moccia: 26:51

customers is something that I think a lot of merchants forget about. And customers can be your most important marketing channel, we all know that the best form of advertising is word of mouth. So it's important for you, as a merchant to give your customers have reason to tell others about you. And now there's, you know, apart from offering a really good service, you can actually start to understand in what bracket of kind of type of promoter your customer falls into by running what says an NPS Net Promoter Score campaign. We've all received this, most people don't know what they are. But you've received an email that says on a scale of zero to 10. How would you rate us now the reason we get asked that is because customers are broken down into three types, you've got the attractors, you've got neutrals, and you've got promoters. Now, if somebody rates a merchant, nine or 10, they are a promoter, they will gladly and willingly tell other people about you. If they rate you seven to eight, they are what known as neutrals. And you know, they may tell people about it, but you know that they might hesitate. Whereas if they are detractors, they will either tell people not to use you, or they won't mention your name at all. So it's really skewed because detractors are anyone that rates you from zero to six. So you can see that it's not split evenly in threes, or fours. So you need to work as hard as possible to get people to rate you nine or 10. So one of the ways that you can get people to rate you nine or 10. Now when you run these MPs campaigns, the feedback you get might seem menial to you. But for most customers that filling this in is important. So we've seen over the years, which are things like your shipping rates are too high, they may not understand that they are paying two pounds 95 for delivering it's actually costing you four pounds, 95 or if not more, so there's certain things that they won't understand. But the fact that they perceive you, as charging too much for delivery means that you maybe need to review your delivery options. It may be that they say it took too long for the product to arrive, they might score you nine or 10. Because they like the fact that when they opened the box, there was a handwritten note in there thanking them for their orders. So they're all little things that you can do to try and make customers happy, exceed expectations and want them to promote you and see you succeed. So that also generates loyalty and trust. So don't underestimate your customers because they will if treated in the right way. tell others about you, not just their friends but also on social media and other marketing channels. So customers are really underutilised but incredibly important marketing channel for you to focus on. So Net Promoter scores is something that you can search on Google. And you know, there are many providers that do that. And it's really interesting the feedback you get, because it may be things that you don't actually realise. But if you start to address those issues, and start getting the NPS score up to kind of the 80s and 90s, and so on and maintain that so every three months or so run an NPS campaign or stagger it, you know, different segments, and it'll give you an opportunity to start improving your service and you know having your customers actually bring you in new clients, whether they are new customers that have never bought a few before, whether it's them thinking, you know, I really enjoy buying from this company, the experience is great, you know, to service, the price, whatever it is, and they will then come back themselves time and time again, if you're giving them a reason to come and buy for you, again, they will gladly do that they'll gladly tell others about it as well.

Unknown: 30:22

Why don't we suggest to take advantage of the NPS as a tool, but remind it is a double edged sword, a customer can become a promoter, but even as the tractor, so don't try to overdo it and try to push it instead, explain your clients, how important it is for you. And for an avalable is this for you?

Luigi Moccia: 30:42

I mean, then thanks, communication. So if you do get the tractor that says, I didn't like the fact that I had to wait three days for, you know, your order to arrive, or when it arrived, it, you know, the box was damaged, or whatever. The important thing I think, even like review websites, is you address that and just say to them, Look, you know, we're really sorry, that, you know, you thought it would took too long, we did ACTUALLY SHIP IT on day one. And you know, unfortunately, the courier took longer, or it's like, Look, you know, fortunately, we're just too busy to be able to offer next day service. Yeah, I think most people just use any opportunity for someone seeking feedback to rant sometimes if they're not happy. So it's really good idea that if you do get kind of some not so positive feedback, address it, you know, clients, they can be turned around, most people are nice and you know, are not up for a fight, they may be just having a bad day, or just annoyed that the order took as long as it did. If you sit down and talk to him and say, Look, you know, we're really sorry, this is, you know, this is what we're going to do, whether it is that you're addressing the issue, or maybe you're explaining it. But actually the other thing is, lifetime value comes into this. Because if if you are the guy that's selling the mirrors, and someone says to you, I didn't like the fact that it took three days to get there, you say, look, it's a mirror, it has to be packaged really well, it can't go on a normal courier, and it takes three days, we're really sorry. But if it's somebody that buys often, and you know does have that high lifetime value, it's in your interest to retain that client and say, Look, I tell you what, for the next order, will automatically upgrade to the next working day, or you know, we'll maybe apply to give you a VIP coupon or whatever it is to kind of just make that person feel appreciated. Because, you know, most people are willing to give a second chance if they are a bit annoyed. And I think you know, just have that conversation with the make them understand. And if you've learned thank them, you know, if they've given you some feedback that you weren't aware of, or maybe took for granted, or you just dismissed. And actually it's important to other people, make sure you thank them, because it goes back to that community feel if you manage to build this circle of clients who can help you grow your business. And at the end of the day, they're the ones that you're working for. So why shouldn't you make things better and easier for them, and if they're willing to tell you how to do that? Absolutely, you know, kind of hundred percent listen to what they're telling you.

Unknown: 32:57

So let me wrap up. This last topic, using customers as promoter is really important, and have a powerful tool for this is the net promoter score, NPS and word of mouth that can be really powerful and important tools for advert. So giving the customers a reason to tell up to the others about you. It's a form of generating loyalty and trust.

Luigi Moccia: 33:26

I mean, I what I would add to that is that if you, as a customer, buy off other websites, start to think about what you like and what you dislike what may be would give you the reason to tell others about that particular experience. And you know, start thinking about it from from the customer's point of view rather than just a merchant, you know, be a bit more outward thinking in your in your approach. But customers I'm, I'm convinced a lot of people just they know the importance of customer service and so on. But they don't actually utilise them as a marketing channel. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think you know, most customers are willing to do that if they are being you know, if they if they receive in a positive experience.

Unknown: 34:07

He does wrap up the last topic, using customers as promoters. It's authentic and powerful tools like NPS Net Promoter Score, and word of mouth are the best advert. So give your customer a reason to tell others about you and generate loyalty and trust through them. I think that's it for this episode.

Luigi Moccia: 34:28

Yeah, I've enjoyed doing this one as well.

Unknown: 34:31

So just to remind you that if you're on social media, follow us on Instagram and Facebook at the big commerce podcast, and visit our website, the big commerce podcast.fm where you can learn more about our podcast and upcoming shows.

Luigi Moccia: 34:50

Good we'll see you next time. See you Bye